Repeated join request

good question

TTN Mapper shows

b827ebfffeae093f
EUI: B827EBFFFEAE093F
Network: NS_TTS_V3://ttn@000013

Last heard at 2022-07-23T09:18:22.062285Z
Lat, Lon: 52.31001187973531, 10.518301427364351
Altitude: 8m

this means V3? an online ? but connectable?

can i be shure OTAA ‘must’ work?

I can see it on V3 - Online

{"netID":"000013","tenantID":"ttnv2","id":"eui-b827ebfffeae093f","eui":"B827EBFFFEAE093F","clusterID":"ttn-v2-eu-4","updatedAt":"2022-01-05T14:09:05.458106Z","location":{"latitude":52.31004776,"longitude":10.51830208,"altitude":0,"accuracy":0},"antennaCount":1,"online":false}
{"netID":"000013","tenantID":"ttn","id":"b827ebfffeae093f","eui":"B827EBFFFEAE093F","clusterID":"eu1.cloud.thethings.network","updatedAt":"2022-07-23T09:38:29.841989Z","location":{"latitude":52.31001187973531,"longitude":10.518301427364351,"altitude":8,"accuracy":0},"antennaPlacement":"INDOOR","antennaCount":1,"online":true,"frequencyPlan":{"region":"EU_863_870","loraMultiSFChannels":[868100000,868300000,868500000,867100000,867300000,867500000,867700000,867900000]},"rxRate":3685.3882,"txRate":0}

And how would anyone be able to discern that - we are all volunteers, there is no reason for us to scroll up or indeed answer, make it easy for us to help you.

As it happens both me & Jeff have serious stalker skills and actually know Germany, so you happened to be lucky, this time.

Altitude and antenna type are not so relevant - you can’t make radio waves do as you wish but if you are on the door step of the gateway, there is no reason for it not to hear your device.

First, read the replies you’ve already got - I’ve already answered the first two.

Current valid version? What’s that? And irrelevant due to the above.

Connectable? You don’t connect to a gateway - search the forum for the normal responses to this mis-idea - devices transmit, gateways hear and if the signal is properly formatted, send it to the Network Server.

The way to debug a device is to look at the serial output - does it seem it’s trying? Then check the gateway web console to see if it is hearing the device - which you can’t do as it’s not your gateway which is why we say get a gateway of your own. Then if the join request is being heard, look at the device web console to see if the EUI’s & AppKey are being accepted and a join accept is being sent.

I had a Dragon 32 about 40 years ago as a first computer but I’d not think of hooking it up to a small berry fruit. Which is the third and possibly last time anyone will prompt you for details (correct spellings, hardware & software version numbers, etc) of your kit to help you debug it.

Either will work.

This issue is all about range to gateway. Once in range, then it will be about the correct credentials and using an actual device, not a mythical flying lizard sitting on fruit.

Reason for the question is to make sure the gateway is on V3 ( if not migrate it, as you know lots of gateways still on v2), but it is on v3

5 KM radius
image

And your gateway is fairly active, with “rxRate”:3685.3882
image

@Johan_Scheepers: many thanks for heplfully reply!

What node are you using?

What stack are you using?

What do you see in the TTN console live view, both the gateway and Application?

you ask :wink: I’ll try to learn - (old terms in new context)

  • and stuck on first OTAA with a mkr-wan-1300 (node) with MKRWAN_v2
    and firmware (…hmm mlm32l07x01 ) update
    i’ll create an application on https://eu1.cloud.thethings.network (stack)

follow the nice arduino.cc tutorial in

(not my first arduino, esp &co - )
the arduino console shows the connection fails:

Something went wrong; are you indoor? Move near a window and retry

  • the Antenna ist outside and 5m over ground so est. 10m over gateway LoS
    and the TNN console (live data?) shows - nothing

And where in your post did that happen to get called out… discovered after volunteers have had to to do a lot of unneccessary digging and time wasting investigation.

Mods have access to registering IP and from that we got a clue that you might be in Germany, recognising a German ‘Post or Zip Code’ equivalent as a user ID helps but not everyone on the forum (we’re global remember) might have that knowledge. Once details of the GW confirmed (again after digging) we home in on where you might be. Note: I know of atleast 2 other users who also use Zip/Post Code as user id - in their case its their place of birth and place of marriage - so not actually where they live or work! So assumptions wrt location not always recommended.

1st instance check TTN Map:
https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/map
If it has been seen live recently it will show on there
2nd Look at your local community (ok, ok I know the community pages have recently stopped showing in area GW’s - have flagged to issue via Slack, but no response yet), in general if seen recently and IIRC active in last 3 days shows in Blue, if not seen active for >3 days it will show red, and again IIRC if not seen for ~ 1month (might be 28/30 days) it will age off and no longer show.
3rd if not part of a community area then look at e.g. TTNMapper, similar status/aging rules apply though not sure exact times for TTNMapper.

Note if your node is being heard by the GW and it is sending messges up to the NS then even if your node/config is having a problem it will trigger the NS to recognise the GW as currently 'active :slight_smile:

V3/TTN(CE) as shown here
https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/gateway-data/gateway/b827ebfffeae093f

Devices do not connect to GW’s - so the idea of connectable is a mis-direction. Nodes shout, GW’s in range that are active hear and pass message on to respective NS - again if active and online

OTAA is independent of GW - they are transparent message handlers effectively acting as sophisticated media converters changing received RF messages into IP traffic to send over ‘the net’. they have no knowledge of device or config and whether ABP or OTAA - only the NS has that knowledge. GW’s only check if messgae is valid wrt FEC & MIC checks, if ok they get relayed.

Question is does GW hear you and if it does is you OTAA config correct and matching on both device and TTN console…if not it will get dropped.

In your shoes if not seeing sensible info in local serial port I would jump in car and drive to within say 200-500m of GW location (assuming it is actually where indicated - many gw locations are ‘dithered’ to allow some security/privacy, but usually within say 50 - 150m so close enough for it to definetly hear’ if node truely active, and even close enough to often help overcome a poor or mis-specified antenna…(if <~100-200m)

so sorry !!
ill never “discovered after volunteers have had to to do a lot of unneccessary digging and time wasting investigation.”
you spend a lot time to blame me, i do wont or need not trigger this.
So maybe its better to delete my posts, and do not longer ask -
maybe i use the equipmet without TTN

Excuse me!

Blame does not come into it - we are responding to your comments and questions and highlighting some of your assumptions…you know who you are, where you are, what you have and what you are doing it - we know nothing unless you tell us and as we often tell users, especially new users, please do not make us play a game of 20 questions to get basic information that may help us help you! ‘Unneccessary digging’ comes about due to that lack to proactive giving of essential minimum info.

Why not, you are doing the right thing asking! we just ask you to help us help you and as you can see from the information and advice already given so far forumites are willing to step up and help where we can, even to the extent of going the extra step of doing some of that digging, :wink: when the easy path would be to ignore your questions until you think to tell us more…

We would also recommend that you spend time reading the documentation (linked from every Console page), looking at LoRaWAN basics - e.g. The TTN YouTube videos, and using Forum search to discover answers or possibly see what info would be needed to help ensure prompt effective answers and problem solving. BTW whilst looking at YouTube you might also want to review the posts around last years The Things Summer Academy (TTSA) - which in part made use of the MKRWAN product for some tutorial/webinar work- Again Forum and Slack may be invaluable as a resource if you search. :slight_smile:

It’s not the OP’s gateway - this is one of those debug with both hands behind your back threads …

We are telling you how we can best help you - right from the first response you were asked for information some of which is only just starting to be revealed - which is frustrating when we’ve seen this issue before and, with the answers, direct you to a solution quickly.

You will need access to a gateway - which is your primary problem. TTN is one of the only open networks, so not using TTN means you have to get a gateway and your own Lora Network Server.

Anyway, we have pretty much all the info now - I recently re-checked the Arduino tutorial so it’s all good - you just need to be close to the gateway.

@BS-38108-01 BTW as I noted above I suspect you will struggle to get signal from where you are to that GW, given your low ant height and GW low level wrt local ground. I just pulled a view of captured data from TTNMapper for that GW from start of April through 1st 2 weeks July and as you can see below whilst some coverage on local Autobahns range looks limited to approx 500m-1km around the GW (probably placed to specifically monitor the Kreiz) with longest signal approx 1.7km to the north…as noted you need to either get your own test GW (a TTIG will do) or get in your car :wink:
image

What direction from you to the gateway?

How may building, trees, hills (a hill can be 10m high and still cause a obstruction) in your LOS?
Like @Jeff-UK say the coverage from TTN are not a huge distance.

Might be a good idea as suggested get in your car and take your node close by some known good gateways.

PS Just make sure your Device EUI, Application EUI and App Key are correct, as this is a common issue.

If you refer to my text in earlier post wrt coverage likelyhood from your location (yesterday) and look at below image - Green circle approx GW location - note low ground…am concerned higher ground around Kralenriede may mask (red area) especially if the wrong side of the high ground - S/SE/E - of BerlinerStr on the hill highlighted purple… The Kralenriede higher ground also likely accounts for the concentration of measured points on the TTNMapper extract above (nothing in an arc approx south to east of GW location)
image

To borrow a line from an old Queen song “get on your bikes and ride”! (There is also ‘I’m in love with my car’ as an option! :wink: )