TTN Mapper - time to shut down?

TTN Network and Services
42

Just to have some idea of what is needed to run this…
Do you have any concrete numbers? Not sure if monthly fees are telling the whole story as when someone may want to take over, they may have access to some of the required resources which then skews the numbers a bit.
Though adding the monthly costs also shows the amount of dedication which has been put in this the past decade.

So apart from the hours, how much are we talking about?

  • Server storage
  • Required server resources (e.g. current server(s) specs + load)
  • Traffic per month
  • Costs regarding required subscription for some services (e.g. some map server)
  • Are there specific integrations to TTN which may require some effort, fees or agreements?
1 Like
43

Good day JP,

You have contributed many hours and money to create and host TTNMAPPER over almost 10 years.I am using it on a daily basis! Please let us get a workable solution to this problem to enable JP to continue with TTNMAPPER.

Kind regards,

Kobus

44

Hello,

Please give it a try!
https://ttn.anruf-service.de
UPDATE: https://ttn-mapper.org or https://www.ttn-mapper.org

For TTN web-portal, you only need to change the base URL in the webhook-url to
https://ttn.anruf-service.de/integrations/tts/v3
UPDATE: https://webhook.ttn-mapper.org/integrations/tts/v3
i tested with “Glamos walker”

Many Many THANKS to
JP Maijers

2 Likes
45

nice!

maybe “OSM Mapnik Grayscale” should be the default map…

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46

@jpmeijers I notice this implementation renders the TTNMapper Patreon link top right……:thinking: haven’t seen that on the main TTNMapper site for a long time - maybe 2+ years? (I’ve encouraged/had folk use it several times in the past), but without that prompt maybe that contributes to the funding issue if others arent seeing either? (Though I gather pending logistics/location infrastructure issues looming with the garage servers vs ‘just’ funding and cloud services may be contributing to future undertainty?)

Ditto the underlying map data default from me too!

47

Is this an official take over agreed with @jpmeijers or a copy taken from GitHub?

As well as the Patreon link that goes to JP’s account, there’s also no map showing until you select another one, there are no beams and the heat map overlay tiles appear to be coming from JP’s garage.

Plus the hosting domain appears to belong to a translation service.

If it’s work in progress, then all good. If it’s a hopeful standup of the Git repro, then when the garage servers are turned off, the heat map will disappear unless you have a copy of the tiles from JP …

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48

I simply pulled JP’s project from GitHub and got it up and running again.

I wasn’t really aware, and it wasn’t obvious to me, that ttnmapper.org is separate and therefore has nothing to do with ttn itself.

And I had never seen the button at the top right during my time there. If I had, I would certainly have donated. For me, the map is essential, especially in the private sector.

I’ll talk to a friend later and then there will also be a nicer domain for the project to continue. Of course, “ttnmapper.org” would be better, but so far there has been no word from JP.

49

Hello, it’s just a copy of Github. The data displayed is all from there.

There are certainly still a few details that need to be implemented, but I wanted to get it up and running first.

This means that the map is displayed; you just have to change the map in the top right corner first.

The upload for the TTN webhook also works; you just have to change the URL.

So far, it works quite well and quickly.

It’s only a test phase at this point.

50

Looks great as a proof of concept for alternate if JP does drop, but as mentioned

and as Nick calls out

So any viable longer term support needs JP’s assistance with replacing or maintaining that - alternate host site for the physical servers/clones thereof? Migrate functionality to also be cloud based? Or e.g. a local Uni agrees to host the hardware, etc.?

@jpmeijers whilst you consider options and futures can you address the Patreon link display issue - may atleast assist funding short term whilst you evaluate options :slight_smile: BTW My vote of course is keep it if you can - invaluable when planning deployments of GW’s and also testing post install as well as looking at community use cases when GW coverage other than own systems may be involved. e.g. I know of disabled/special needs folk using devices to locate them or provide alarm/panic button fn who also get funding for trips and outings, but who use the device coverage info (called from advanced maps for specific dates) to ‘prove’ activity and verify the case for getting payment etc., they will miss this ‘open’ community facility vs closed proprietary/commercial methods….. especially with historic records for later audit etc.

51

OSM Mapnik Grayscale → is now the default

1 Like
52

Absolutely no it is not - where are the gigabytes of data files in the repro?

Yeah, like the heat map tile processing and the beams data in JSON. This is the hard part that takes up server time and then has to be served from somewhere.

JP can’t, only the person hosting the copy can do that.

53

….on his own site - TTNMapper original - not the .de copy - link on that shows!

Checked with Firefox ESR, Samsung Browser on Android and iPadOS 18.6.2 and 15.8.5 and link doesnt show on any, and as noted not seen for year(s) now.

54

The data points still displayed all come from ttnmapper.org.

In addition, there are measurement points from me and a few others users.

Since I don’t have access to JP’s database, the measurement points would probably also disappear if ttnmapper.org were shut down.

I’ll leave it running for now. Today or tomorrow, a better domain will come along, and then I’ll wait and see how things develop.

1 Like
55

since its christmas time we can make a wish like a subdomin of

thethingsnetwork.org

:slight_smile:

56

Unfortunately, I’m not Santa :wink: But I hope I can fulfill one small wish.

Website
https://www.ttn-mapper.org or https://ttn-mapper.org

In TTN webportal, the configs exactly the same…(no one needs to change these)
You just need to change the URL.
→ https://webhook.ttn-mapper.org/integrations/tts/v3

I test with my field measuring device Glamos Walker

I wish you all a wonderful Christmas season.
Regdards

57

You are misleading people that you are able to take over TTN Mapper unless you can speak to the issue of the back end processing of submissions in to the heat map png tiles and the beam json polygons.

Even if you do get hold of a copy of the database and the files used on the website, you will have to address the challenge of processing new data for display in the main maps at some point.

This is where the financial burden on the website exists and the two data servers hosted at JP’s home.

There may well be help available with this, but you shouldn’t ignore the hard part of the system just because for the next few days it seems to be working.

You also need, by EU law, to resolve the data protection aspects that are implemented on the original site including the ownership of the submitted data, cookies and the right to be forgotten.

59

Thank you for raising these points — they are well understood and not being ignored.

To clarify, we are not claiming a simple “copy” or a superficial takeover of TTN Mapper. The current deployment is a deliberate continuation focused on keeping the service operational while the future of the original infrastructure is unresolved.

We are fully aware that the technically and financially demanding parts of TTN Mapper are not the static website or the database alone, but the backend processing pipeline — including ingestion of new uplinks, aggregation, heatmap tile generation, and polygon (beam) processing. These components are central to long-term sustainability, and they are explicitly part of our planning rather than something being deferred or overlooked.

The fact that data is currently flowing and maps are updating is not accidental, nor is it assumed to be “the hard part solved forever”. It is simply the current operational state while longer-term processing and hosting decisions are evaluated.

Regarding costs and infrastructure: we are aware of where the financial burden historically existed and why. One of the goals of this continuation is to assess how these components can be operated more transparently and sustainably going forward, potentially with broader community involvement rather than relying on a small number of privately hosted systems.

On the data protection side, the situation has been addressed explicitly. The service does not use advertising, tracking, analytics, or non-essential cookies, and a full GDPR-compliant privacy policy is now in place. The legal distinction between technical processing, map visualization, and ownership of submitted data is understood and documented, including users’ rights under EU law.

In short: the “hard parts” of the system are neither unknown nor ignored. They are precisely the reason why this continuation is being handled cautiously, incrementally, and transparently rather than through promises of an instant replacement.

Constructive input on backend processing and long-term sustainability is, of course, welcome.

2 Likes
60

I didn’t include the link, as everything was already in the GitHub repository…

The measurement points really do come from the original ttnmapper.org server. However, I only found that out afterwards.
In other words, if it is switched off, then my map will also be bare.

61

My two cents on this.

I’ve been working with TTN Mapper since 2017 and have contributed many thousands of data points (possibly millions) over the years. It’s always been a pleasure, and I’ve been happy to contribute in whatever ways I could. I’ve had the privilege of speaking with @jpmeijers many times and meeting him in person. We’ve shared the same philosophy about community efforts, as well as the same disappointment when it comes to community support. While there are examples of thriving communities, unfortunately LoRaWAN and TTN don’t seem to be among them, which is a pity.

I understand where you’re coming from and the struggles you’ve faced. From my own experience, I know that at some point you have to let go and move on to pursue new paths and adventures. When you look back, you’ll see how things continue, whether they mature and develop further. I think it’s time for you to move forward and invest your time and energy in new things, just as you did in 2016.

I believe your idea will live on. So many people appreciate it. Have a bit of faith.

5 Likes
62

I will miss it. For me TTN Mapper is still a great thing.

1 Like