835km with LoRa ? How to find the owner of a TTN gateway from EUI?

ferrero · June 13, 2019, 11:05am

Hi all,

On the 11/06/19, we have launched a high altitude balloon from Rousset in France in the frame of STM32inthesky event.
The balloon has reached a 31km altitude and a simple lorawan node with SF12 was transmitting packets.
The longest gateway detected was in Weiz near Graz in Austria. The total distance was 835km.
The EUI on the gateway is : EUI-70B3D5B020030D77

Anyone know how to contact the owner of the gateway to check in the GPS position was right ?

It would be a new record for communication distance in LoRaWAN !

Tks for helping

Fabien

vue_ballon2 dipole2

tlu · June 13, 2019, 5:06pm

It used to be possible to get owner information from the /map URL but that doesn’t seem to be possible anymore.

This page https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/gateway-data/ gives a full dump of all of the gateways which you can then search.

Also see:

https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/community/berlin/post/ttn-api-request-for-gateways

ferrero · June 13, 2019, 7:37pm

Thanks a lot !

From the dump file, I find that this gateway belong to Pesslinstruments company which is located in the builing of the GPS position, and the company provide LoRa sensor for agriculture (http://www.pesslinstruments.com/).
Sounds good ! I’ve sent an email.

vragho · June 15, 2019, 2:59am

Interesting use case specially range

UdLoRa · June 15, 2019, 5:46am

ehi! you also have been heard by my gateway (or better, gateway of the University of Udine, Italy). Do you have a better map of reached gateways?

ferrero · June 15, 2019, 7:47am

Hi,

I created a Github with the main results : https://github.com/FabienFerrero/HAB_Relay_STM32Contest

I store my data in a CSV file, and I’m now extracted the GW received for a given packet.

For exemple, here is a map in Udine region for 3 packets.

Here is the raw CSV file with every packet and associated GW reached.
If you find your gateway, I can plot the packet results on my red-node map !

github.com

FabienFerrero/HAB_Relay_STM32Contest/blob/master/results/GW_dip2.txt

2019-06-11T12:55:55.529753Z,"[""eui-0000024b08031311""]",[-112],[5.2],[43.47499],[5.60772],[215],[2778495899]

2019-06-11T12:56:11.279231Z,"[""eui-0000024b08031311""]",[-107],[6.8],[43.47499],[5.60772],[215],[2794245380]

2019-06-11T12:56:29.849569Z,"[""eui-0000024b08031311""]",[-114],[4],[43.47497],[5.6077],[219],[2812815724]

2019-06-11T12:57:04.558431Z,"[""eui-0000024b08031311""]",[-110],[5.2],[43.47496],[5.60768],[224],[2847524595]

2019-06-11T12:57:20.310133Z,"[""eui-0000024b08031311""]",[-111],[8],[43.47496],[5.60768],[224],[2863276300]

2019-06-11T12:57:38.882919Z,"[""eui-0000024b08031311""]",[-107],[4.8],[43.47495],[5.60769],[224],[2881849092]

2019-06-11T12:58:29.350203Z,"[""eui-0000024b08031311""]",[-109],[6.2],[43.47497],[5.60768],[225],[2932316388]

2019-06-11T12:58:47.923349Z,"[""eui-0000024b08031311""]",[-119],[-7.2],[43.47497],[5.60768],[225],[2950889540]

2019-06-11T12:59:22.635067Z,"[""eui-0000024b08031311""]",[-108],[6.5],[43.47498],[5.60768],[226],[2985601267]

2019-06-11T12:59:38.388049Z,"[""eui-0000024b08031311""]",[-109],[3.2],[43.47496],[5.60768],[228],[3001354252]

This file has been truncated. show original

bsiege · June 15, 2019, 8:26am

How do you get this position? If i compare the given EUI-70B3D5B020030D77, and take the gateway position, it is 10Km North of Basel.

UdLoRa · June 15, 2019, 9:51am

Yes, I found two packets (eui-0000fcc23d0a71e6); nice attempt!

ferrero · June 15, 2019, 10:02am

I obtained this GPS position from TTN server when my uplink was received.

How do you get these data ?
Do you know the type of GW ? Especially if it is using a GPS device to calculate the position.

“metos” is also the contact email for the company Pessl Instruments near Graz.

Tks a lot

Fabien

ferrero · June 15, 2019, 10:08am

Nice ! 642 km to Udine, good distance.

Fabien

UdLoRa · June 15, 2019, 11:04am

If you look at the gateway list linked above, the coordinates seem to be 47.64732065, 7.59773554 .

ferrero · June 15, 2019, 11:32am

Yes I understand, but I would like to know where this information is coming from ? On TTN you can declare the position of your GW, but if the gw is equipped with a GPS device, I think that it will overwrite the position when it forward received packet to TTN server.

If someone know about it ?

Tks

JDP · June 20, 2019, 8:49am

I didn’t spend any time analysing the csv file but I do see thousands of entries. To me this shows the importance of ADR to trim back power and SF settings. Just think of all the resources (gateway spectrum/timeslot/backhaul) that each SF12 packet was consuming!

Long distances are a fun story, but efficiency is the name of the game for real use

bsiege · June 20, 2019, 8:41pm

This seems still to be a trend: Huge efforts for long distance experiments, record chasing and not caring about any duty cycles or (Fair) Access policy.
According to this cool Airtime calculator, you can/should send less than one SF12 packet per hour, not all 20 seconds…

LoRaTracker · June 21, 2019, 6:04am

The on air time at SF12 would be circa 1.6 seconds.

If the legal duty cycle limit were 1% that would require transmitting no more often that once every 160 seconds or so.

ferrero · June 21, 2019, 7:29am

In fact,
The node which was sending each 20s was using SF9 without any payload, using sequentially the 8 possible LoRaWAN channel.

And the second node was sending each 40s with a SF7, SF9 and SF12 cycle again on the 8 possible LoRaWAN channel.

But I agree that at one point, the battery was so low that the board was probably resetting after each uplink due to the current peak, and the duty cycle wasn’t respected.

I’m really sorry if I interfere with anybody packets during this 2H experiments

kersing · June 21, 2019, 2:22pm

You should be sorry you are violation national radio spectrum regulations. Which does not only impact other TTN users but other users of the same frequency as well.

bsiege · June 21, 2019, 7:26pm

If you base on TTN for LoRa experiments, then Fair Use Policy of TTN should be respected. Because you are nice. Then there is as grey zone between FUP and duty cycle regulations. From there it is no more about gentlemans agreement, it is simply breaking the law.

Why is TTN not enforcing FUP? Because they simply can’t. And if they could/would, i bet that 90% from existing projects simply won’t work reliable anymore. That includes reference projects like paxcounter…

(just my opinion)

RocketMan · June 26, 2019, 5:28pm

What frequency was this transmission on? Curious about propagation?

What is the likely probability of success of each packet transmission at this range?

system · August 25, 2019, 5:28pm

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