Choosing between plain Lora and LoraWAN

I know that Lora and LoRaWAN are often used synonymously, but I had an interesting discussion today with a sensor vendor, stating that their devices did’t use LoRaWAN, but some kind of “hybrid” Lora solution.

By “hybrid” I mean that fact that :

  • The sensors use ABP (and have DevAdr, AppSKey and NwkSKey) but claim to not support LoRaWAN.
  • send out payloads that most LoRaWAN server seem to be able to decode (although an application payload is sent with FPort=0 payload meaning that most LoRaWAN servers reject the payload).
  • decided not to use LoRaWAN because of the negative impact on battery life compared to using standard Lora.

The sensors are rolled out in typical industrial applications, where multiple sensors are scattered around company sites, with one or more Lora gateways being responsible for forwarding the packets to a central server (where stuff like de-duplication, decryption takes place).

I was interested in the fact they would opt for plain LoRa for such a use-case as opposed to LoraWAN (one obvious advantages of LoRaWAN being much better interoperability with other systems (gateways / LoRaWAN servers).

How would your typical star based topology (multiple sensors / one or more gateways / central server) be different when using plain Lora vs LoRaWAN ? Is there really such a negative impact on battery ? (I believe the main reason was that the LoRaWAN spec forces devices to also turn on their receiver after sending a message).

Any thoughts ?

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About the (specific) hybrid solution you described:

In my opinion, this “hybrid” thing, is not the best idea, for the following reasons: (1) ABP should only be used for specific use cases, and has quite some limitations. Of course that doesn’t really matter because the devices don’t implement LoRaWAN anyway. (2) Sending payloads with an application payload on port 0 will cause really strange things to happen on LoRaWAN compliant servers, because they will try to interpret them as MAC commands. (3) Removing the option of downlink from the devices makes that you will never be able to send instructions to devices.

No downlink means that you can no longer apply Adaptive Data Rate. No ADR means that you can’t tell the device that it can transmit at a lower power to save energy. No downlink also means that you can’t optimize the application itself, as you won’t be able to tell the device that it has to send more often if you want more detailed telemetry (assuming it’s a sensor) or less frequent if you want to save some more energy.

Then on plain LoRa vs LoRaWAN:

LoRa is great and in some cases you don’t need LoRaWAN. Nothing stops you from deploying a solution that uses plain LoRa and drops the WAN. You don’t have to change anything in gateways, because they simply catch LoRa packets from the air and forward them to a server without knowing what’s in it. Gateways don’t even understand LoRaWAN. If you don’t need the benefits of LoRaWAN you can simply use the LoRa radio protocol, build your own MAC layer on top of that and implement it in your devices and your server. Your deployment will probably look exactly the same: a star-of-stars topology where many end devices send to a couple of gateways that all forward to one server.

That may work just fine for some use cases, but I think LoRaWAN gives you quite some things that will make your solution a lot more scalable than when you would use plain LoRa.

Most importantly, you don’t have to re-invent the wheel, but instead build your solution on top of existing networks. That can be TTN’s free and open community network, or a paid network deployed by telecom operators all over the world. If you want a private network, there are many commercial and open source network servers around, so you won’t have to build something from the ground up. Being fully LoRaWAN compliant (and using OTAA) means that you can switch to a different LoRaWAN network operator (or from/to your own private network) whenever you want. This also gives you more flexibility in development, because you can start building on top of TTN’s free public network, then switching to an operator that gives you better SLAs, and later to a private server behind the firewall of your client.

And finally, the battery life:

I don’t think those receive windows have such a big impact on the energy consumption. The windows are just long enough to detect the presence of a preamble for a downlink message. If you’re close enough to the gateway (which you probably are in your use case) it shouldn’t be too hard to detect this. Maybe @telkamp or @matthijs can give some more details about the energy consumption of the RX windows.

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And ADR along with one’s own private network instead of a shared one (such as TTN) means the device can only use the private gateways, even when some other (TTN) gateways might be much closer to the device, which would have allowed ADR to reduce power even more.

Just go TTN, no thinking required. :wink:

This sums up what was in my head, only much better written and in a more coherent form. Thanks a lot !

If I understand correctly such a solution works with standard packet forwarders out there, but a custom server (non LoraWAN) is required that can decode this “fake LoRaWAN” packet, extract the encrypted payload, ignore the FPort / MAC command handling, and decrypt the payload using the symmetric AppSKey and NwkSKey).

I guess this also means that stuff like de-duplication also needs to be implemented on the server level.

I think the sensor vendor missed the mark in the sense that he didn’t implement his own mac layer on top of Lora, but is now sending what most systems would interpret as LoraWAN packets, only to find out that it is “invalid” as it doesn’t contain any MAC commands, and the application payload will be lost. This indeed results in unpredictable behavior such as:

  • MultiTech lora server decrypts the lora packet and makes the payload available upstream
  • LoraServer (brocaar) receives the Lora packet but rejects it early on and doesn’t make it available upstream
  • TTN receives the Lora packet, forwards it upstream but drops the payload (empty payload)

Thanks a lot for the answer, and the great work you’re doing. We were in on the kickstarter from the beginning and we’re hoping to receive our TTN gateway soon. In the meantime we’re already looking at deploying several other LoRa gateways in Belgium and making them part of the TTN network !

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I think the main reason for developing ones own Lora protocol is the punitive data rates that one must adhere to with LoRaWAN. For serious SCADA and telemetry applications (as I currently see it) the traffic/data restrictions are simply too restrictive.

also for video transmissions LoRaWAN is not the right platform.

Rather than LoRaWAN users being ‘punished’ with low data rates, the vast majority are quite happy with the low data rates that this free to use system provides.

A high datarate system it is not, and was never intended to be.

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Even with your own protocol you still need to adhere to legal limits (in EU868 region < 1% time on air). If you are looking for fast transfers of large amounts of data LoRa & LoRaWAN are not the right technology.
If you are looking to deploy sensors that need to report back a couple of times a day with small amounts of data it is. (For instance temperature/humidity sensors, sensors in trash containers etc)

So you are (partially) right. It all depends on your use case.

For SCADA/Telemetry we don’t need high data rates; it depends on the application (of course). However, we need to know if a packet fails to arrive. Since we cannot have an ACK from the gateway with each node transmission, this poses a serious problem.

It’s fine for applications where the data is not an issue if it is lost. Say, an air quality sensor. If you miss a transmission, no big deal. You’ll probably get the next one. However, it’s a big problem if you are monitoring (say) a sewer outlet that goes into spill. That is information that you need to have.

I’m very happy to be proved wrong, but in my conversations with people in the SCADA and Telemetry business (of which I’m one) this is the main objection that I am hearing.

Looking at the wikipedia definition of SCADA it implies the need for reliable communications. In that case LoRaWAN is the wrong technology as it is asymmetric (lots of uplinks allowed but only a small amount of downlinks because the gateway can’t listen while transmitting).

Now the only question is, does the wikipedia definition match what people in the field consider SCADA?

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Reliable. Yes. That’s a fair definition. Sometimes we only need very infrequent communications (once a day, for example) if it’s a wier level (for example) but there may be regulatory requirements that mandate that we must get that data.

LoRa is attractive because of the low power requirements and it’s very very cost-effective indeed. However reliability is an issue.

That hasn’t stopped me installing two LoRaWAN gateways though :wink:

LoRa is not the only technology in that field, for example there are also NB-IoT, SigFox, MIOTY or LTE-M1. I think MIOTY seems to be a good candidate for your use case.

I want send data from one Lora node to multiple Lora node and receive data from multiple nodes, can I implement this without LoraWan? by one of node as server?

Sure you can, but that is point to point LoRa and off topic for this TTN forum.

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Many thanks for quick reply, I am complete new to Lora, can you please point me to correct forum?

There is no general purpose LoRa forum that I am aware of, although it may be discussed in some of the various microcontroller\electronic forums.