What is the status of the TTN Gateway?


#267

I agree and now that the first TTN Gateways are delivered its time to change this topics title


(Bsiege) #268

To all the posters here who mistake Kickstarter for a charity, or some gambling platform:
I can only speak for myself but i feel not alone. I never took a risk at any crowdfunding i backed. Because i do not back Hoverboards and Laser Swords. A LoRa gateway was nothing new in 2015. And TTN make a good impression over all. Some well known technology like gps, ethernet, wifi, lora glued together in a affordable way. In a business where HW-prices will half every one or two years. I pledged 290€ and additional 50€ for this no-brainer. TTN was proven by all the TTN-members who did maker-style their own gateway and nodes and used the network itself already. LoRa capable Arduino compatible boards where already available to the beginning of the TTN-Kickstarter too. My personal target was to earn knowledge in a early phase of the LoRa technology. For this i had to invest further in own (professional) gateways and nodes. On a commercial network. Later i switched to TTN with this hardware. The success of the growing network helped the founders to focus on this instead to fulfill the Kickstarter. The news was always about new communities an where the founders meet their new friends. We are growing, we are growing!! News about the KS-parts where few and mostly positive verbalised. But rarely helpful. To be positive does not mean to ignore some issues and name them. I was part of the >250K$ credit and i think i am allowed to name some observed issues. And there are plenty… Everybody can use the backend for free since the beginning. The real investors who gave real money into the project had never real benefit at all. Not even symbolic. It is not about money, it is about respect!


#269

Thanks for the elaborate reply. This kind of feedback helps us from viewing everything more from the outside.

Kickstarter is platform that allows backers to support makers to bring a product to the market sharing the challenges and risks and getting the product as a reward.

The reason we put up the Kickstarter was building a global crowdsourced network and therefore we needed a low cost easy to install gateway. Something not yet on the market. People that wanted to get started right away could with the right knowledge get started. Using the free TTN platform.

This was 6 weeks

Correct, and they could already be claimed starting from July 2016. Or ordered as a beta on request from 2015.

That is great to hear. Hope you like the platform

We could have done better there. Allthough critical parts were communicated. I think we are already at 30 updates.

I hope we have been positive to any feedback. Only not to abusive and disrespectful ones.

The money that was collected in the Kickstarter has never in anyway been used for TTN in general. We divided this strictly through different business entities. Also the money is only used for cash out. Never has any salary, business trip, overhead or any other operational costs been paid with that amount. This has all been sponsored by both TWTG and The Things Industries (company which employs the TTN team).

We needed to also focus on the positive of the growth of the network without the Kickstarter backers. This in the end generated sufficient cashflow to sponsor the debt that was building inside the Kickstarter project. Also this benefited the backers as well as it created network around them. And in a early stage we offered the UNOs to be delivered more early which allowed them to get started in the case there was coverage.

Note taken. We could do better at this one.

Again, you might have a hard time imaging this post gives us new perspectives. When you are focussed on getting the products out. Were close to complete failure. You get in an operational mode that might not always be that empathetic. Let’s call it survival. Thanks again.


(Jac Kersing) #270

Th real investors are not only the kickstarter backers. There are plenty of people that contributed other gateways (which are not free), contributed code, contributed knowledge, ran workshops and organized meetups. These people invested as well… (my personal out of pocket investment in TTN exceeds the amounts you mention at least 10 times, not to mention countless hours spend preparing workshops and working on software for free)


(Bsiege) #271

Of course there are many contributors. Some are gifted to have some skills to contribute real value like programming to a project. But any kind of project needs money in one or another way. And if it is only Energy for the backend. Money is always one the best contribution for the big rest. The “out of pocket amount” does count a bit less because you still own the hardware yourself and have a choice to use it otherways.
There are several ways to get money. TTN has chosen the Kickstarter way. In retrospect i would prefer a simple donation. But i think there was and there is no mention of this possibility on TTN website. And to be consequent: I recognize you as the one who made it possible to have a easy script for connecting the multitec gateways to TTN. Thank You! I would be happy to honor this also with a small amount.


(Gonzalo Casas) #272

Sorry, but that’s totally inaccurate. There is an entire network backend that was built (that has nothing to do with the backend available on the early days). There’s a hosted version of it running in a multi-continental setup and being operated by TTN that is totally free for the community to use. There’s a huge amount of knowledge coming out of TTN in the form of docs, videos, source code and also participation in community events.

If you’re going to discuss respect, please be fair/analytical about the good and bad: there are always things that we won’t like, but in the big scheme of things, we already received a lot, and the only fundamental problem of the project so far has been communication issues: sometimes they were too optimistic, sometimes they took too long to explain why things were taking longer, but yeah, shit happens, and they folks were trying to do their best. Large-scale logistics is not something you pick up in no time.

Are you sure about that?? How many finished LoRaWAN gateways were really available for non-businesses to buy back then? I think only 2: Kerlink and Multitech’s. And Kerlink was seriously not friendly towards non-business in their purchasing process. So, yeah, they were not the very first, but it was definitely something new back then. The idea that a finished, certified gateway could be affordable, was (and still is) not a given.

The rules of Kickstarter are very clear and even if you didn’t feel that it was a risky move, it always is. That’s the nature of KS, hoverboard or not. Also, if we would be talking about a failed project that is not delivering anything, then I would understand your reaction, but it is not: the gateways are being shipped as we speak; with a lot of delay -that’s for sure- but it’s only a delay, you didn’t donate anything here, you will get the product in your mailbox in a few days.


(Bsiege) #273

My rants here are only Kickstarter related:

  1. The VAT drama.
  2. The products reached the commercial channel before the backers.
  3. Every yet produced gateway is a “Backers Edition” (UNO and Node too)
  4. The Kickstarter related communication.

#274

I have received a SkyNet tracking number, but can’t seem to find details about the shipment any more. Does anyone have a working tracking website for SkyNet? The Skynetwwe.com site can’t find my shipment any more :frowning:


(Richjdavies) #275

With all the ‘respect’ being thrown around I thought I’d just check something quickly…

From the core-TTN guys- is it helpful for people to buy TTN gateways now? or is it all just a big hassle? I ask genuinely - as we are pushing TTN in our area, and so we’re guiding our local community on which gateways to buy (and thinking Type Approval etc.). I want to know how best to support the general cause.
Does buying TTN-gateways help much? Or would we be better of buying a Laird or MatchX and sending TTN a few bucks as a ‘donation’ instead?


(Bsiege) #276

Since you can buy a finished product from serious distributor (element14) there seems to be a low risk. As i understand TTN is no more involved in the distribution expect from getting some margin. Should more be a relief than a hassle for the team. Shipping, Taxes and warranty runs like every other product you order over a professional channel. Overnight delivery as a bonus. So they can breathe again and follow their higher aims again :wink:


(Dhmspector) #277

@wienkegiezeman I think the big issues that everyone here seems to be wrestling with are:

  1. almost zero communications - I signed up for the kickstarter exactly 1 year ago and have heard almost zero about he progress of this project - even after direct communications with you expressing my concerns about this lack of updates, and

  2. Now that the TTN gateway is shipping via 3rd part supplies that the Kickstarter backs who should have been the very first people who received their gateways are still waiting with no clear shipping dates or with shipping info the doesn’t resolve into a stackable object.

the lack of effective communications – and by effective I mean information that tells the full story and reassures the backers that their investment in your idea will be fulfilled - - and lack of forward motion on the delivery of product to people who have made your effort successful is very distressing.

The backlash is building against crowd-funded projects that diss their backers yet use their crowd-funding success as a springboard for large-scale commercial ramp-up… and the bad press that seems to building here is a disaster in the making.


#279

no fresh viewpoints… just repeating what’s been mentioned many times before, and you open an account just for this comment ?


(Jac Kersing) #280

That is strange as the kickstarter was funded (and closed) november 2015, so well over 2 years ago.


#281

The title of this thread is “What is the status of the TTN Gateway” and not “what mistakes have been made during this project”. The status is: the GWs are shipping, some have received their gateways already, some others like me are still waiting for a tracking number. But repeating over and over the same errors made in this KS project is totally useless. I think the ttn people have learned their lesson. I suggest that this thread being closed with a final statement: The gateways are shipping!


#282

Has any Kickstarter backer received their Gateway yet?


(Tcottle0) #283

I ordered via the webstore. After multiple assurances both in this thread and in various e-mails that the gateway had shipped or will ship in the week of Dec 10th I see the FedEx has taken possession of the gateway today. Since FedEx can give credible delivery estimates I expect to see my gateway next Friday


(Gonzalo Casas) #284

Mine (ordered via the original Kickstarter) is also scheduled for Friday delivery by FedEx. :dancer: :smile: :sun_with_face:


#285

Ah, I found a working tracker and my gateway is also with the transporter in Hong Kong since today.


(Hylke Visser) #286

I think we should keep the topic open and have everyone post GIFs of the status LEDs on their gateways :wink:


#287

Now that gateways are on their way, is there any technical information opened such as schematics?
I’m asking this because I received my TTN nodes today (ordered yesterday @farnell), they are awesome for testing everywhere but I was unable to find any schematics, but may be I looked at the wrong place?